The epoxy primers do a good job at sealing the surface, It is the only primer body fillers can be applied over the top. The key to getting paint to stick well to bare metal is all in the metal prep and using the right primers. You can apply it over paint or bondo but it is only effective on bare metal. Is the self etching primer something I can spray on to protect it from rust and leave it until I’m finally ready down the road to apply the high build primer? Self etching primer contains a mild acid that actually etches the bare metal to create a superior bond between the primer and the metal. Rust-Oleum®Self Etching Primer is designed to prepare bare metal, aluminum and fiberglass surfaces to promote maximum adhesion and smoothness of the topcoat finish. Allow time to dry, then paint. We would like to offer you a special promotion for your first-year membership. Custom Shop Premium Self Etching Acid Etch Primer, 1 Quart - Ready to Spray Paint, Excellent Adhesion to Bare Metal, Steel, Aluminum, Fiberglass - Use on Automotive Car … Can we go ahead and start adding are first coat or will we need som other type of regular primer ? GregI understand what you are trying to do and I've seen it done nicely a couple of times. Mark sparrowhawk@ihug.co.nz, Something which can cause problems is salt, Even a finger print can contain enough salt to cause tiny blisters under the film. My question: If I apply a zinc phosphate coating on my bare metal (such as After Blast by Eastwood), can I still use a self-etching primer over top of it? You need to use self-etching primer to paint aluminum, but prep work is especially important. I'm thinking I can use etching primer then undercoat-in-a-can on top of that? another good choice would be to spray it with a two-part epoxy primer. And the undercarriage parts are rusty too? It uses a combination of acid and zinc in its formula. Do not use near open flame. Hi Jim,Thanks for the great info. The self-etching primer is usually gray or olive drab gray but the color is just there to show you where you’ve put it on and it is very thin and one thin coat is enough. I was told that because I used spray cans, the primer was no good. Mark Oja works on a rare, custom Blown Fiat and adds his own custom hood using sheet metal fabrication made from cheap…, Craig Hopkins provides helpful tips for restoring a classic car in this video. Re: Do I need to sand my Rustoleum self etch primer before painting over it? Self-etching primer will get in there and bite into metal for you. You can apply your high build primer or body filler over the self-etching primer but be careful it is not a finished product by it self. This ensures good adhesion and rust prevention. A site for the discussion of automobile paint and painting. Self etching only needs to be applied to Bare Aluminum. Two light to medium coats will do. Monstercolors Metal Etch-Tech Grey Primer 400ml, Etching Primer Paint,Aluminum, Copper, Lead, Tin, Zinc, Steel, Carbon Steel, Chromium, Nickel, Cast Iron & Galvanized Metals 5.0 out of 5 … Will I need an etching primer for this? Self-etching primers can be used on anything from steel or stainless steel, to aluminum, fiberglass or plastic. It is also sold as an aerosol mixture, which can be used as simply as spray paint. Thanks. Especially bare metal that has been exposed to the elements for more than a day or so. Self-etching primer will get in there and bite into metal for you. My son is building a bobber and he wants to leave it bare metal and put a clear coat over it to protect it from rust. My general rule of thumb is, If the area to be primed is over a couple feet square, I prefer to mix up some epoxy primer for bare metal. Eastwood Epoxy Primer has self etching properties that chemically bond the primer to the metal rather than just a mechanical bond achieved by normal paints. Thanks Jim. The control bolt will then set the height of fender to height of door…, Craig Hopkins demonstrates how to sand a car fender using a small, tight orbit DA with a cushion pad. Make sure to be just as careful Craig when sanding around the edges so you…, Enter in your email and password to create a FREE account, https://go.ClassicCarRestorationClub.com/C15970, Sheet Metal Shrinker/Stretcher For Your Classic Car, Customize Your Own Classic Car With Sheet Metal Fabrication, Restoring a Classic Car: Installing Fenders. Hi What’s the next step after selfech priming ? My email address is ddesoto103@aol.com Thank You. I have searched the forum and not found an answer, so - Can I spray an Acrylic Enamel auto paint (lower end stuff like Kirker) over the Rustoleum Automotive Self-Etching Primer that comes in rattle cans? into google because i had seen it being sold by a couple of on-line retailers and wanted to know more about it - this really helped - thank you! I generally plan to be ready to pick up the car from the blaster the moment it is done and am ready to throw it into primer. another good choice would be to spray it with a two-part epoxy primer. This will stop corrosion expansion until the area once again gets exposed to moisture and air. Yes the self etch primer would be a good choice, If you’re going to prime out an entire fender, door, etc. Find Dy-Mark 325g Etch Metal Primer at Bunnings Warehouse. This helps remove sanding scratches and small surface defects. What’s stopping anyone from just applying his or her paint without primer? We’d love to have you be a part of our community. The only thing I can imagine is the the paint store guy misunderstood and thought you were using cheap spray can primer and wanted you to take that off. A clean surface is of paramount importance. A sheet metal shrinker/stretcher is perfect for any type of metal fabrication you need for your classic car, and it keeps the metal completely flat (without crimps). This special primer will grip to the metal and prepare you for regular primer and paint. Etching primer is a type of primer paint that has a high acid content that allows it to form a superior bond to bare metal. Primer 1 FT302 Reducer PHYSICAL DATA FP301 at 1 to 1 with FT302 is 5.83 pounds per gallon. If it is applied to anything but bare metal you could risk adhesion issues (especially if the base paint wasn't prepared correctly. I must admit it is not real pretty, but from all Ive read it is not that important that the SE primer be very thick. Just make sure you shoot the first coat of epoxy with NO reducer, just 1:1 with activator. Visit your local store for the widest range of paint & decorating products. Do you have any suggestions on the best way to do this? You did make it clear to him that you were using self etching spray can primer? Thank you for your patience while i got you the response from the experts. I look forward to your videos every week and always seem to learn something new. Unless you only have a few minor issues to fix, it’s challenging for us do-it-yourselfers to carve out enough time to strip the old paint to bare metal, do the repairs, apply bondo and then spray a layer of self-etching primer before surface rust begins to form on the body. Thanks. Yes the self etch primer would be a good choice, If you’re going to prime out an entire fender, door, etc. I have another project of replacing the rockers on a car and I need to get paint on the inside of the panels to prevent rust.Thanks again for the info,Arden. Follow the manufacturer's instructions on the side of the can for best results. Problem metals like aluminium copper and galvanized benefit from self etching primer. This helps remove sanding scratches and small surface defects. Etch Primer can be tricky. You also must make sure that the primer you're applying over it plays well with Etch primer. For this I recommend a direct to rust paint I've tried POR15 and Chassis Saver and Hammerite. It’s a paint intended as an undercoat that prepares numerous surfaces for a topcoat. Once applied and dried (couple of hours) Use a 3m Scotch Brite pad to knock down any nibs and then shoot the Bare metal primer over the entire Prepped(Acetone wipe down) surface. Find Metalshield 300g Etch Primer Spray Paint Light Grey at Bunnings Warehouse. However I've never heard of a clear and I've picked the brains of a couple of people I know and none of them has heard of a clear self etching primer.Jim, ddesoto10365 impala hardtop nice! Mark Oja gives a brief demonstration on how the stretcher works and then shows you an example of a finished product. I think I'd go self-etching primer, then spray can enamel then undercoating in a can.The enamel, and I'd use gloss is going to give you more protection than just the undercoating.And like you said she deserves it.Jim, Does any body make a clear self-etching primer? Etch Primer can be tricky. At its core, primer is a type of paint. Self-etching primer is composed of an acid and zinc. That etches into the metal and then the primer chemically bonds to it. I had no need for a gallon of DP90 + gallon of Catalyst. Follow the manufacturer's instructions on the side of the can for best results. Putting more of the primer won’t make it work better. Epoxy works pretty good over Acid etch as the epoxy does not tend to melt the etch like, say a 2k primer would, only issue will be is the etch is the weakest link but normally OK, if done this way. When doing major or even minor work on older cars your going to run into rust. Remove all dirt, old paint, and rust from the surface., old paint, and rust from the surface. If your diecast has a lot of fine detail, the self-etching primer will get into the areas that you can’t sand and stick anyway, and … (poly primer, that additive stuff, chassis paint, even a little Evercoat OEM Metal Glaze just in case) The frame was sanded down and sprayed with an etching primer from a spray can. I then use a primer sealer or epoxy primer to seal up the surface then apply the top coats. I was wondering, can parts be dipped into etching primer? Hope this helps, Mark This is particularly the case with parts of the frame or cast wheels that have been sandblasted and are in no need of further work. Self-Etching Primer Dupli-Color® Self-Etching Primer etches and primes bare metal in one step, making it ideal to use as the first step in all automotive priming projects and for use on spot repairs. This is achieved by combining an acid with the paint so that the acid microscopically etches the surface of the substrate, thus forming a physical and chemical bond between the two. Certainly, it’s clear that primer can improve a project, but what is it exactly? I do not recommend using body filler with self etch primer. Mark, I’ve got some bare metal panels that I’ve been working on but won’t actually get to base coat painting for quite some time (probably months or up to a year). The acid, usually phosphoric acid, forces the zinc down into the top couple of molecules of the steel. The new paint needs a little tooth to grab onto and hold it secure to the finish. For small parts or spot repairs I often use SEM self-etch primer. I just went in to my local paint shop to buy some high build primer to put on the self etching primer I used in my engine compartment. Just make sure you shoot the first coat of epoxy with NO reducer, just 1:1 with activator. Self-etching primer is ideal for painting metal and creates the foundation needed to bond with the paint. Phosphate washes are designed to clean and etch the metal in preparation for primer. What is the purpose of primer? Hi Mark. I was hoping to get away from blasting the frame so I dont have to remove the entire steering/A-arm assemblies and rear axle assembly with 3 arms. Once the self-etching primer is dry, spray two to three coats of the high-build primer over it, always allowing each coat to dry before applying another one. Wipe the surface with wax and grease remover to get it clean enough so nothing interferes i.e. Without using an undercoat, the quality of your paint job suffers. fingerprints. What primer to put over Etching Primer? So it’s important that you get all of the scaly rust off. For large area coverage I generally use PPG DP 90 epoxy primer after I condition the metal using a 3M rust & paint removing disk and wash the surface with PPG Acri-Clean. Allow the final coat of Self Etching Primer to dry for a minimum of 3-4 hours before dry sanding, or 15 minutes before wet sanding with #400 grit sandpaper. Just in case you do not remove rust from metal before painting, the rust will eventually remove the paint. It’s also important to remember that no primer is meant to be a top coat and they lack any real UV resistance. Classic Car Restoration Club Video Membership. Put on your face mask and spray the entire piece with the self-etching primer. HOW THEN DO WE USE AND APPLY SELF-ETCHING PRIMER ON ALUMINUM?Let’s take a look at the steps in applying a self-etching primer. I know it's a little over kill but I love my Road Runner and she deserves it. What is recommended to prep the frame for priming and painting. We are convinced you will enjoy the benefits of becoming a member and having access to the best instructional how to videos and professional tips. Primer Self Etching Beige for Bare Metal Aluminium Plastic 4.8 out of 5 stars (12) Total ratings 12, £8.39 New Go to next slide - Best selling All Auction Buy it now Sort: Best Match Best Match Price + … Any input is greatly appreciated. Hello Chap,Top blog with very informative information!I'm Paul from Surrey, England.I, like so many people here have a Land Rover defender 300TDI 1997 and need to understand if I can use a "Self etching primer" for both Aluminium brackets and galvanised door hinges? I bought the usual gaggle of stuff from a local paint supplier to paint my frame. Painting over rusted metal is not recommended. Once the surface is clean wear gloves, Has no one heard of cathodic electro paint ,properly done it will coat all the inside bits. Unless you only have a few minor issues to fix, it’s challenging for us do-it-yourselfers to carve out enough time to strip the old paint to bare metal, do the repairs, apply bondo and then spray a layer of self-etching primer before surface rust begins to form on the body. Typically the next step is apply a primer surfacer, 2-3 coats then block sand with 320-grit. Self-etching primer is a primer that can come in an array of mixtures including a compound mixture that you have to mix yourself. Do not use near open flame. Allow time to dry between coats. Self-etching primer will not get rid of the rust; it will only paint over it. Local paint store has SEM brand and POR-15 self etching primer. I have a 1965 Chevy Impala 2 dr HT--I have completly sandblasted the entire car--i have stripped her down to the shell on the frame. I use it when ever I see bare metal or if I’m putting one metal against another. Can you put body filler over self etching primer? Good paint adhesion is as much a mechanical bond as it is a chemical bond, so sanding with a finer grit paper may actually shorten the length of time your paint remains attached to the old paint. Dry time is about an hour.Jim, Hi I am messing around with a car I have as a daily driver ( a 81 caprice) its still a very nice car for its age, has rust starting. I prefer Hammerite.Remove all loose rust, dirt, grease and salt with detergent and water then clean with a solvent and rinse with clean water. I only use self etch on bare metals. Self-etching primers have to have another primer ove… A note about self-etching primer and aluminum. Self-etching primer is ideal for painting metal and creates the foundation needed to bond with the paint. Sheet Metal Fabrication can be a useful and effective tool when you are looking to add customized exterior to your classic car. Whether you’re sanding, sand blasting or chemical striping to get rid of the paint and getting down to the metal the first thing you need to apply to the steel is self etching primer. For instance steel screws in aluminum or on welds. He explains that it is imperative the doors on a classic car are lined up before installing the fenders because that’s what the fenders are going to fit. The acid will actually burn or etch into the metal while embedding the zinc into the surface of the metal. Self etching only needs to be applied to Bare Aluminum. But I would use either acid etch primer or a good epoxy primer if you plan to prime and paint parts and avoid a phosphate wash completely. Self-etching primer is especially effective on diecast, which ordinary paints and primers sometimes have trouble sticking to. Customers can shop with us in-store or online with our Click & … Now my uestion is it has rust starting but hasnt rusted through, now can I grind it down to bare metal por-15 the rusted areas then put bondo over that or whats the way to go? 7 Inspect the piece visually and also by rubbing your hand over it, and use glazing spot putty to fill in any remaining flaws or pinholes in the primer. Thank you for that - i am currently trying to put my 39 year old land rover back together and put "what is a self etching primer?" The epoxy primers do a good job at sealing the surface, It is the only primer body fillers can be applied over the top. Here it is: Phosphate washes like After Blast work well if you plan to powder coat or do not plan to prime your parts right away. You can apply it over paint or bondo but it is only effective on bare metal. I wanna do this myself cheap as possible, I have a hvlp gun and a compressor. In this video, learn how to customize your own classic car! Thanx, I have a '97 Hyundai, I think it has aluminium panels. https://go.ClassicCarRestorationClub.com/C15970, what grade sandpaper is needed to sand paint that’s already on the car for repainting once the sanding has been done do the car have to be primed before painting. If you plan to do body work after priming, epoxy primers are a better choice. Allow the final coat of Self Etching Primer to dry for a minimum of 3-4 hours before dry sanding, or 15 minutes before wet sanding with #400 grit sandpaper. That is a worthy project. You can apply it over paint or bondo but it is only effective on bare metal. Yes you can. Self Etching primer is a coating that is meant to be applied directly over bare metal. Putting more of the primer won’t make it work better. since scale is harder to remove than most paint why bother, i have been painting machinery with cheap machinery enamel for 20 years, right over scale, most of the time without primer and (maybe i am lucky) never had adherence Once the area is coated in self etching primer more traditional primers can be used to build out the surface. Aluminum is especially difficult to paint. Can I spray an Acrylic Enamel auto paint (lower end stuff like Kirker) over the Rustoleum Automotive Self-Etching Primer that comes in rattle cans? Etch Primer is a paint that is designed to physically bond itself to the substrate to which it is applied. This allows for a nice flow rate that makes the sanding really smooth and gives the classic car a clean finish. The Self Etch Primer is a good first step for bare metal, or an Epoxy Primer. I have a project where is want primer and paint inside and out on some parts I'm restoring or do you know if there is something I can use to spray paint into hollow areas of parts? Undercoat in a can may not be quite the overkill that you imagine. Tonight I made my first attempt at spraying Self Etching primer (Nason 491-17) to my hood. Self-etching primer comes as two parts or ready to spray and also comes in aerosol. Can you put body filler over self etching As a If you do choose to use them I would next apply an epoxy primer as opposed to a self etch primer. I then use a primer sealer or epoxy primer to seal up the surface then apply the top coats. Putting more of the primer won’t make it work better. Thank you for your patience while I got the response from the expert, Here it is: Generally we use 320 or 400 grit to prep old paint for repaint. The self-etching primer is usually gray or olive drab gray but the color is just there to show you where you’ve put it on and it is very thin and one thin coat is enough. Self-etching primer adheres to tin-plated steel really well and it dries to a somewhat rough finish that makes it easy for the top coat to grab onto. Is this true, the primer is no good if used from a spray can? Once applied and dried (couple of hours) Use a 3m Scotch Brite pad to knock down any nibs and then shoot the Bare metal primer over the entire Prepped(Acetone wipe down) surface. .DESCRIPTION AND USES. The self-etching primer is usually gray or olive drab gray but the color is just there to show you where you’ve put it on and it is very thin and one thin coat is enough. Will self etching primer work correctly over body filler? Any rust on metal parts must be removed first either by sanding, media blasting or brushing off with metal brushes. For galvanized the chemistry is a little different but the result is the same just make sure your surface is clean before you begin.Jim. I was at my local paint shop a few days again, they informed me that you need to paint over etch primer within 30 mins. I bought 1 gallon of etching primer and a can of hardner (normal drying time). Chemically impregnating the steel like this cannot reverse the rust but it can stop in from getting worse. The Self Etch Primer is a good first step for bare metal, or an Epoxy Primer. Let’s start at the beginning. You have sandblasted the body and I assume it's because of rust, correct? Re: Do I need to sand my Rustoleum self etch primer before painting over it? Typically the next step is apply a primer surfacer, 2-3 coats then block sand with 320-grit. The steel that is your car wants to turn itself back into the puffy red iron oxide that it was when it was mined. If your car is going to be outside during the restoration process you may need to re-coat some of your primed areas. Epoxy works pretty good over Acid etch as the epoxy does not tend to melt the etch like, say a 2k primer would, only issue will be is the etch is the weakest link but normally OK, if done this way. (poly primer, that additive stuff, chassis paint, even a little Evercoat OEM Metal Glaze just in case) The frame was sanded down and sprayed with an etching primer from a spray can. Metals with high electromagnetic potentials (aluminium and copper)are so electrically active that they will push the paint off from the back side. Visit your local store for the widest range of paint & decorating products. Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License. They said if you leave it any longer than that the etch primer will be too hard and you will have to rub it back before you can paint over it. Is it better to apply body filler before or after self etching primer? This comment has been removed by the author. Never had any peel yet, self etching primer I use on bare metal. If you’re shooting primer over bare metal or cast iron that could be exposed to the weather before you get it covered with additional primer, it’s usually best to use an epoxy that combines the qualities of a metal etch, a primer surfacer, and a primer sealer. If you wait more than 12 hours you should, like he said scuff down with a Red scotch pad and reapply, then prime. Painting without primer deprives your project of a smooth and seamless finish. When you have a complete car media blasted, many shops will also throw on a phosphate wash to keep the car from flash rusting before the customer picks it up. If it is applied to anything but bare metal you could risk adhesion issues (especially if the base paint wasn't prepared correctly. Self Etching Primeris a first-step coating that provides excellent adhesion to bare substrates. Just sanded an old exhaust bracket down to bare metal and was wondering what the best thing to use was since it will be on the bottom of the car. Depending on the goal of your project you have a few options after the epoxy primer is sprayed. Now after spending 175 on a two part metal lock, I am left with the task of stripping my whole engine compartment back down. Your self etch primer should be just a really light piss coat, you don't want a thick coat, it could cause your top coats to crack over time. Regular primer can be an adhesion-promotin… In other words you can’t apply it and then push the car back outside, it has to have a sealed surface over it, water will reverse the reaction and will pull the zinc back out. Stopping anyone from just applying his or her paint without primer repairs I often use self-etch! Etching primer ( Nason 491-17 ) to my hood primer you 're applying over it be dipped into primer... 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